- A wild party with a lot of drinking, sex, and doing coke off the toilet
- Sitting in a classroom at Brown discussing philosophy texts
"Interesting things like snort coke off urinals"? Seriously? You just completely dismiss The Marriage Plot's characters because they spend time trying to figure out the world around them through philosophy, religion, and literature, yet it would be more interesting if they just said "Screw all that, let's see how wasted we can get in a bathroom stall"? How is that "interesting"?My response to that is it's interesting because it's something I don't do. I had a philosophy class in college, so I've already done that and frankly it wasn't all that interesting in real life, so it's not going to be very interesting in a book.
My point being when I'm reading a book, I don't want to read a bunch of mundane crap. I don't care about your character going to the grocery store, or filling his/her car up with gas, or using the bathroom. Not unless something unusual happens in those circumstances. Like if your character is in the grocery store and then runs into an old flame like Dan Fogelberg's "Same Auld Lang Syne" then it's more interesting.
And don't get me wrong; I don't want every book to feature galactic wars or car chases and whatnot. I just don't want it to be a bunch of boring, navel-gazing or routine stuff I do every day. Maybe if you were the reincarnation of James Joyce you could get away with that, but chances are you aren't. (Though wouldn't that make an interesting book?)
If you want to do philosophizing, at least have the character climb a mountain in the Himalayas to see some reclusive guru. Have the character put some freaking effort into the thing instead of just showing up at his/her classroom.
Was this post interesting to you? Probably not.
When you put it this way, I would have to pick #1 as well even though it's not something I do either.
ReplyDeleteI always say if it doesn't move the plot, it needs to be cut.
I think everyone has different tastes in literature. No one is going to please everyone. That's why there's the blurb and reviews, so we can see if it's what we like before we spend money and time on it.
ReplyDeleteI'll read anything that's interesting writing, even if they are talking about mundane subjects. David Sedaris has a bit of that going on in his writing.
ReplyDeleteSometimes, talking about mundane stuff sets a tone. You might use a (short) boring passage about, say, grocery shopping, to lull a reader/viewer into complacency, but generally that's before something exciting does happen, so I'm with you on that.
I guess the point is: Write well, or write about exciting stuff, or do both.
I haven't read this book, but the reviews of it I saw make it sound like what you said it was here: boring navel-gazing. Of course, it's up for book of the year, because critics love that.
Both #1 and #2 I could enjoy with the right company -- say Olivia Wilde! :-) I understand what you mean. My Victor Standish novels are (according to my best friend - a mean critic) the prose equivalent of an INDIANA JONES movie -- which she likes. She is a psychologist so she also enjoys the teenage street kid, Victor, sorting out the weirdness of his life and holding his own in debates with undead enemies (usually as they are closing in on him).
ReplyDeleteReaders pay hard cash money for our work. Depressing routine they can get for free, right? I followed from Tonja's blog, Roland
At the risk of sounding sexist, you're speaking from a very macho point of view, and I see nothing wrong with that. I'm writing a thriller and the ladies in my writing group keep telling me to include "feelings." How important are feelings and revealing acts of self-awareness when the world is ending?
ReplyDeleteCan we combine them. Talk philosophy post coke fueled bathroom orgy or something. I would like that. I mean, does it have to be either or?
ReplyDeleteThat's kind of what Christian Bale did in the reboot of the Batman franchise. Sure he wasn't climbing a mountain to discuss philosophy; rather he was climbing a mountain to learn from Raas al Ghul.
ReplyDeletePretty much all you need to know from philosophy has already been discussed. I read Nietsche, Aristotle, and several others. It's doubtful if any conversation could top what has already been written and discussed to death.
I think the comment happy person on your review of "The Marriage Plot" was more a complaint that you read the book without accepting much of what the book seems to be about. This would be like reading an instruction manual and then complaining about the manual because it had instructions in it.
Perhaps you shouldn't have finished the book. It obviously is not something that appealed to you. But the fact that you gave it time means that you might have gotten more out of it if you had accepted that the characters were going to explore their world philosophically. In other words, sure it's boring but did the author approach the philosophy well?
So I guess what I'm saying is, if you choose to read something then read it for what it is and check your baggage at the door. Otherwise don't read it. There are plenty of books out there that have cocaine, sex, and excitement.
I have to say that I'm not interested at all in #1. Not as an all encompassing option. At least, not as far as participating goes. However, if you ask me which I'd rather -watch-, I'm all over #1. Personally, I'm just not up for toilet coke and binge drinking.
ReplyDeleteWell, heh, I did graduate with a degree in Philosophy and I don't drink alcohol. So I think I'm one of the few who would enjoy philosophizing more than partying. Yet I agree about it being boring in books. Give me action. If the characters want to philosophize, let it be in deadly battle with vampires and involve lots of witty banter.
ReplyDeleteThe next time I get a request to critique an awful piece of shit that gives me a laundry list of daily activities, I'm sending them here!
ReplyDelete@Rusty - you're just wrong! ROFL